Island Man

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Posts by Island Man

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  24

  Resistance is NOT futile!

  by Bonsai in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  all i want from this life is to be able to wash windows at bethel.. my story.. when i was fresh out of high school and pioneering, i said those exact words to my friends and family.

  all i wanted to do was be at the core of the organization where it was the safest.

  i gleefully told people that i'd gladly spend the rest of my life washing windows, waiting tables, doing laundry or cleaning bathrooms.

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  Island Man

  "Zeb, according to the JW's putting a flower on a casket is an ancient pagan custom to honor and worship the dead."

  What! I never knew that. Those legalistic, self-righteous pharisees!
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  7

  I just realized something that I didn't realize before

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws teach that only the anointed should partake of the emblems at the memorial because they are in the new covenant but the rest of jws are not.. well, if we follow that logic, shouldn't they also teach that only the anointed should pray in jesus' name?

  they teach that jesus is the mediator between jehovah and the anointed only and that the "other sheep" are going to be beneficiaries of the new covenant but are not party to it.

  the exact same reasoning applies to the memorial - the anointed are in the covenant but the "other sheep" are not.

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  Island Man

  Thanks for that Listener.

  Now watch how easily that Insight article can be tweaked to argue that all JWs can partake of the emblems although they're not all in the New Covenant:

  <<There are, thus, others not of the 144,000 “sealed” ones who also pray to Jehovah God in the name of Christ partake of the emblems at the Lord's Evening Meal, putting faith in the merit of his ransom sacrifice. This sacrifice is not only for those for whom Jesus mediates the new covenant with whom Jesus makes a covenant for a kingdom but also for all mankind expressing faith in Christ. (1Jo 2:2) These not in the new covenant also appreciate that “there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” (Ac 4:12) They, too, look to Jesus Christ as their great heavenly High Priest, through whom they can approach God and through whose ministration ransom sacrifice, by which they can get forgiveness of sin. (Heb 4:14-16) Revelation 21:22-24 points out that ‘the nations will walk in the light of New Jerusalem,’ where Jehovah God is the light and the Lamb Jesus Christ is the lamp.>>

  The same argument about Jesus having different roles can be used to say that all should partake of the emblems - Jesus serves as a ransom for all and as the mediator of the new covenant. So the anointed partake of the emblems as members in the new covenant and as beneficiaries of christ's ransom sacrifice while the "other sheep" partake only as beneficiaries of the ransom. One faith two hopes. One set of emblems, two significances. See how easy that is?
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  7

  I just realized something that I didn't realize before

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jws teach that only the anointed should partake of the emblems at the memorial because they are in the new covenant but the rest of jws are not.. well, if we follow that logic, shouldn't they also teach that only the anointed should pray in jesus' name?

  they teach that jesus is the mediator between jehovah and the anointed only and that the "other sheep" are going to be beneficiaries of the new covenant but are not party to it.

  the exact same reasoning applies to the memorial - the anointed are in the covenant but the "other sheep" are not.

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  Island Man

  JWs teach that only the anointed should partake of the emblems at the memorial because they are in the new covenant but the rest of JWs are not.

  Well, if we follow that logic, shouldn't they also teach that only the anointed should pray in Jesus' name?

  They teach that Jesus is the mediator between Jehovah and the anointed only and that the "other sheep" are going to be beneficiaries of the new covenant but are not party to it. The exact same reasoning applies to the memorial - the anointed are in the covenant but the "other sheep" are not. Therefore what holds true for partaking of the emblems should also hold true for praying in Jesus name - and even more so for the latter, because praying in Jesus' name involves invoking his office of mediator but he is not the mediator for the "other sheep"!

  So how is it the JWs don't see this glaring inconsistency? How did I not see this glaring inconsistency?
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  34

  Babylon the Great and the Anti Christ

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  similar views as those presented here are gaining in popularity in christian circles.

  .

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgmrfatdvtm.

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  Island Man

  I believe that the writer of Revelation intended Babylon the Great to refer to Jerusalem and the religious leaders of Judaism. This makes the most sense when Revelation is considered in the context of the rest of the NT. Consider the commonalities between the two:

  1. Both the Jewish religious system and Babylon the great are said to be full of the blood of prophets, including the blood of Jesus' followers:

  (Matthew 23:29-36) . . .“Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU build the graves of the prophets and decorate the memorial tombs of the righteous ones, . . .31 Therefore YOU are bearing witness against yourselves that YOU are sons of those who murdered the prophets. . . .34 For this reason, here I am sending forth to YOU prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them YOU will kill and impale, and some of them YOU will scourge in YOUR synagogues and persecute from city to city; 35 that there may come upon YOU all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom YOU murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly I say to YOU, All these things will come upon this generation.

  (Revelation 17:6) . . .And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. . .

  (Revelation 18:24) . . .Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

  The book of Acts portrays the Jews in various places as being instrumental in stirring up persecution against Jesus' followers.

  2. Judaism was international in scope, having both ethnic Jewish and foreign proselyte followers in many countries who speak many languages:

  (Acts 2:5-11) . . .As it was, there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, reverent men, from every nation of those under heaven. 6 So, when this sound occurred, the multitude came together and were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7 Indeed, they were astonished and began to wonder and say: “See here, all these who are speaking are Gal·i·leʹans, are they not? 8 And yet how is it we are hearing, each one of us, his own language in which we were born? 9 Parʹthi·ans and Medes and Eʹlam·ites, and the inhabitants of Mes·o·po·taʹmi·a, and Ju·deʹa and Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Ponʹtus and the [district of] Asia, 10 and Phrygʹi·a and Pam·phylʹi·a, Egypt and the parts of Libʹy·a, which is toward Cy·reʹne, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Creʹtans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues about the magnificent things of God.”

  (Revelation 17:15) . . .And he says to me: “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. . .
  
  3. Jesus' instructions to his followers that they flee Jerusalem when they see it surrounded, matches the idea expressed at Revelation 18:4:
  (Revelation 18:4) . . .And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues.

  
  

  
  

  The only scripture I see in Revelation that seems to contradict this view is Revelation 17:18: "And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth. . ."

  
  

  Jerusalem did not have such great political clout back in the first century. It's possible that Revelation is here referring, not so much to political clout, but just the fact that Judaism was very influential, having adherents throughout the ancient world who would make annual pilgrimages to Jerusalem. Jerusalem was also the figurative palace of the God of the universe, whose kingdom is above that of all the kings of the earth. The religion was also greatly respected by non-members, seen as a source of ancient noble wisdom. Of course this all changed later when the Jews started being accused and expelled from Rome. But the writer is likely talking about the great influence of Judaism early in the 1st century.

  
  

  The writer of Revelation is basically comparing and contrasting "apostate" Judaism with true Christianity. The NT refers to christians as being the chaste bride of christ, so the writer styles Judaism as the antithesis of that - a promiscuous harlot. The book of Ezekiel also styles Jerusalem/the Jews as a promiscuous harlot. It's really not hard to see that the writer was referring to Jerusalem/Judaism.

  
  

  If you see the book of Revelation as a purely human work by a man living in the late first century or early second century and trying to guess at the future with the limited knowledge of his own time, then its easier to see how it fits with other bible texts. But if you see it as being a truly prophetic book inspired by God and accurately referring to future events to take place in our time, then it starts to make a lot less sense.
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  3

  Last Spiritual Hard-On

  by TheFadingAlbatros in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  when the huge hypocrisy of jw.org will be fully unveiled and governments or other authorities are decided to put an end to it, what will happen in the mind of the rank and file jws ?

  are they going to have a very last spiritual hard-on, sticking to their guns of so-called "truths" and "new lights" ?.

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  Island Man

  "It's the foretold attack of Gog of Magog! Jehovah, please give me the strength to remain faithful to the end and to not be swayed by the vicious satanic propaganda of the governments! Please let me be loyal to your organization no matter what."
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  17

  BBC Radio 4. The Report. ''Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Sexual Abuse''. Thursday 9th July 8pm.

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0612hjs

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  Island Man

  Why does the program keep getting pushed back? Could it be that Watchtower is the cause? Maybe they keep setting a date for an interview and each time they cancel and reschedule as a stalling tactic?
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  28

  Was It Designed? Rabies Purposeful Mode of Transmission.

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  was it designed?.

  rabies' purposeful mode of transmissionrabies is caused by a number of lyssaviruses that attack the cells of the nervous system disrupting their normal function.

  symptoms include painful spasms in the muscles of the throat and larynx of patients, accompanied by a strong aversion to drinking liquids - hydrophobia.

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  Island Man

  Satan, has creative powers.............
  what scripture pray tell, would support that? none, but she 'reasoned' that it must be so, because satan is an all powerful angel with creative powers and God wouldn't create harmful creatures.

  Maybe she thinks it was Satan boasting to Job about the fearsome characteristics of Leviathan . . . or does she think Jehovah was boasting to Job about Satan's creation? LOL.
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  29

  To DA or not to DA, that is the question?

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  let me preface this by saying that i don't expect anyone here to make my decision for me.

  i do however note that like the bible says, in the multitude of counselors there is wisdom, and this is a huge decision, so i wanted to put it out there for discussion.

  i really appreciate your words of wisdom, as this affects not just me but my wife also, as we find ourselves in the same boat.

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  Island Man

  I think the decision really comes down to balancing two competing interests - planting seeds with JWs by means of a powerful, factual DA letter vs the freedom to speak with JW family by not DAing.

  If you don't have JW relatives and/or friends whom you wish to stay in contact with, then I think DAing does more good than harm. I no longer buy the whole "playing by their rules" argument. To me, such an argument smacks of useless petty pride. It really does nothing to help those inside think seriously about the organization. It's nothing but a selfish assertion of personal ego/power.

  On the other hand a good DA letter - emailed to all the publishers in your congregation before giving it to the elders - does a lot to help those still mentally trapped inside.
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  6

  Glory, glory, HalleluAPA!

  by Island Man in

  1. social
  2. current

  after describing apostates as being "mentally diseased" apostates may soon have good gounds for describing jws as being "mentally diseased", according to this news story.

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  Island Man

  :smirk: :smirk: :laughing:
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  6

  Glory, glory, HalleluAPA!

  by Island Man in

  1. social
  2. current

  after describing apostates as being "mentally diseased" apostates may soon have good gounds for describing jws as being "mentally diseased", according to this news story.

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  Island Man

  After describing apostates as being "mentally diseased" apostates may soon have good gounds for describing JWs as being "mentally diseased", according to this news story